# Swell AI Transcript: Soul Line vs Goal Line - On Coaching (First Edit).mp3

SPEAKER_02:
Welcome to the Beyond High Performance podcast featuring content and conversations from me, Jason Jaggard, along with our elite coaches at Novus Global, their high performing clients, and the faculty of the Metta Performance Institute for Coaching. On this podcast, you'll hear some of the world's best executive coaches and high performing leaders, artists, and athletes discuss how they continue to go beyond high performance in their lives and businesses.

SPEAKER_05:
In this episode of On Coaching, we are diving straight into your goals and your souls. Here at Novus Global, we are helping people achieve goals beyond their wildest dreams. And that doesn't happen without setting a harmonious balance between these two methods. I'm David Gerber, partner and executive coach at Novus Global, and I'm joined by my fellow partners, Chris North and Amanda Jaggard, to discuss soul line and goal line coaching. Along with defining these important terms and beginning to weigh why they're important in the world, the three of us bear our souls to give both personal and professional anecdotes on how we experience this tension in real life. If you're wrestling with a goal as you fire up this podcast, hold on to the question, what experience do you want to have out of life? We hope you enjoy the show.

SPEAKER_01:
What if one call could change what you once thought was impossible into a reality? Novus Global is offering you an exploration call with one of their world-class coaches to explore what you as a leader and your team are capable of. Novus Global is an elite executive coaching firm that works with multi-billion dollar companies, professional athletes, nonprofit leaders, and faith in government, all to create teams, companies, and communities that go beyond high performance. Book your call right now. Just go to novice.global forward slash now.

SPEAKER_05:
OK, so we're talking today about goal line versus soul line coaching, and I've got Chris and Amanda here to cover this conversation. And so I'm going to jump right in with you, Chris. And I want to start off with this question of, first of all, what is goal line versus soul line? How would you define the two things? And then and then why does this matter? What What's, what is the problem we might be solving with this?

SPEAKER_06:
Really kicking off with the easy questions. Define, define the soul. Oh my goodness. Thanks. I appreciate that. You're welcome. I tell people this regularly. I'll say, you know, we use the terms like goal line and soul line probably because they rhyme, uh, and it's memorable and there's, there's probably lots of ways to define them. And Amanda is probably going to have a different way. David, I'm sure you'll have a different way and not that those ways are necessarily incongruent with each other, but they are added layers of understanding. So I guess if I take my swing at it, what I'll oftentimes say is goal line is, fairly obvious. It feels fairly obvious anyway. And so what happens is somebody will come to us oftentimes and they'll say, Hey, I need help crushing goals and getting to maximize performance and all of these things. And that's pretty understandable. That's a lot of times what, what coaching is, is to maximize performance and move things and, and create goals. And we have a whole episode that we did on goal setting right at the end. Every single time, what has inevitably ended up happening is we'll set a goal. It's one of two things. It is actually beneath what the person is actually capable of. So in other words, what will happen is they'll come to us and they'll say, here's our goals. We'll work through them. And inevitably, we as coaches will go, OK, why do you need me? What is going on here that you actually need a coach? It's a genuine question. It's not meant to be belligerent towards them in any way. But what will happen is it seems to me like this is well within your scope of capability. What are we going to be talking about? And they'll say some version of, well, I, you know, I just can't seem to get myself to do the things. And so we'll use a common example. That's probably for everybody is we're still in January. So I'll use it is the gym. It's played out, but it's real. And so it's like, I want to make healthier choices and you can fill in the blank of whatever that is. So I want to make healthier choices. And then I just fall into these same routines. I fall back into the same patterns of behavior of thinking. And I just can't seem to. execute on what I know I'm capable of. And therefore, there's tons of frustration. There's all kinds of things. And so a lot of times they'll come looking for some version of clarity in their goal setting and accountability for their actions to get there. And we love that. That's fine. So that's the goal side of things is we have a very clear, specific, defined scope of what we want to accomplish. the soul side of things, what is actually happening is maybe more important than just the goals. It's the patterns of thought. It's the patterns of belief. It's the undealt with past experiences. It is the uncontrollable circumstances and how a person is training themselves or has been trained either intentionally or unintentionally to respond or react to those circumstances. To keep in the same example, we want to make healthier choices. We want to continue to go to the gym or work out or change our dietary restrictions, things like this, whatever it may be. and we'll go for a little while and then we'll inevitably get off course and what happens to get us off course and then we'll usually respond to that getting off course with some level of either shame and blame or frustration or or some negative connotation of emotion or well the other one is uh what i call effort behaviors i won't say it on here but it's just like we we get to the point where we just go we we just quit believing we just go you know what Forget it. It's forget it behaviors for all of you out there listening. Forget it behaviors. And we want to really dig into the thought patterns and the belief systems and understand why people are making the choices that they're making, why they're making or taking the actions they're either taking or not taking. And that's really more of what we call the soul side of things. It's lowering the waterline so you can actually see what's going on beneath the surface for people and understanding how to move them forward towards what they want. And the goals then become a natural outflow of a lot of the changes in what we're referring to as the soul on coaching. So that's my first swing at it. I'd love to hear what Amanda and Gerber, honestly, you as well. I'd love to hear both of your takes on that is and feel free to entirely disagree with me. I love that too.

SPEAKER_05:
Let me jump in and I'll hand it over to Amanda here quickly. My favorite question last year as I heard this question and the question is, what experience do you want to have of life? And I just love that question and it kind of got to the soul line part of things because like let's say you set annual goals. You know if you set annual goals that you're technically going to complete let's say near the end of the year or maybe achieve them halfway through but there's gonna be a lot of days and a lot of moments between now and june now and december now and whenever your goal is due to be complete and let's say you're gonna hit it there's all these moments between now and then. And I love the idea of what experience do you want to have every moment that you're going after that goal. And I just love that. So if you're listening, that's one of my favorite questions to ask because it helps me tap into day one of that goal, being on track for that goal or off track. to day 365 or whatever it is, what experience do you want to have that whole time in terms of responding and relating to that? So of course, I've got more, more thoughts, but I want to hear what Amanda has to say, and then I'll jump back in. But Amanda, what are your thoughts on goal line, sole line, and how do you find that to be effective?

SPEAKER_03:
I love that question. Wrote that down. I'm going to work on that myself. When I think of goal line and soul line coaching, I think about my space that I'm holding as a coach and how I'm showing up to the conversation even as a client. So when I think about where I'm showing up, holding more of a goal line coaching space. It is usually around those very clear outcomes. I think about specificity. I think one of the ways that I can get slippery as a client is, yes, probably setting goals, Chris, like what you said, beneath what I am capable of. But one of my strategies for doing that is to stay really, really vague on what those goals are. And so One of the ways that a coach really serves me is holding a space for me to get specific around what it is that experience of life that I'm wanting to create because I can stay very vague. So the goal coaching really helps me get specific. And the soul coaching, Chris, like what you said, it is that lowering of the water. So sometimes we'll use this metaphor of a lazy river and you have the jets that are going underneath the water to where you're floating on the raft and you're Mai Tai around the lazy river. And I think a lot of times when as a coach or as a person looking at my goals, if I'm just trying to change my behavior without actually looking underneath the hood of what is going on with those beliefs and emotions and all of that that is propelling those behaviors, where it's like, yeah, that makes sense. If I think that way, then it makes sense that those would be the results that I would be creating. When someone can hold space for me to really Go behind the curtain underneath the hood Lowering the waters to what those jets are and I can really look at that then I can get super curious Around if those are the directions and the beliefs that I want to have and so the sole line coaching is the lowering of the water and looking at that and And then also doing some reflection on, are these the beliefs that I want to be holding? Is this the inner world that I want to be creating for myself? And so intentionally then, what do I want to do to shift some of those things out and put some new things in that are actually going to help propel me to get those specific goals that I want? So then It becomes, for me, a very synergistic relationship between the two, where you don't have one without the other. I've done the goal coaching without actually looking at the soul stuff, and that's like trying to go against the jets, the lazy river, the other way. and just exhausting. Or I've done the soul line coaching without actually putting it into action. And that just kind of can get stuck in the, oh, that's so interesting. Look at me and the fascinatingness of my thoughts, which doesn't really get me where I want to go either.

SPEAKER_05:
Yeah, I love that, Amanda. And I'm thinking if you're a listener right now and you were on a call with one of us, we are going to ask you certain questions. And I want to ask Chris and Amanda a little bit of what questions we might ask and what that brings about and why does this matter? And Chris and Amanda both alluded to this of one of the biggest reasons this matters in the coaching space, at least in our experience, is that We all know that we're probably setting our goal line goals and probably our soul line goals as well, below what we're capable of. And so if you're listening, when you share with a coach, for example, here's my goals for the year, or here's the experience of life that I want to have, what we say in our world is that a good coach helps you get what you want. So a good coach is gonna say, great, those are your goals, for your goal line and soul line, let's go get them. A great coach or experienced coach is what we find is they help you expand what you want. So we poke at, so we might say something like, could we expand that? And you can expand it a couple different ways. One is you can, Double your sales goals, let's say, or collapse timeframes. So there's a lot of ways to go about, you know, massaging and messing with your goal line and soul line characteristics. And so we want to help you expand those to a point where there's a thrill, like a thrill involved in an art. And at least in my world, I want there to be a thrill involved every moment of the way. Because as soon as you start to expand, now you introduce potential of failure, potential of taking a risk and not getting it, setting things beyond yourself. And so we introduced this concept of not hitting your goals or not hitting your, what we call your sprint goals. So you take the end of your goal and let's say you break it down into quarters and let's say you're not on track to hit your goals. Now we get to see like, what kind of experience do you have when you realize, oh, I'm not on track and how you relate to that from a soul line perspective. And so how those things interplay. So I want to throw back to you, Chris, in terms of, and the question I want to ask is I want to have you dig in a little bit more and maybe share a story or two of. Why does this conversation matter? And with the clients that you're either working with or have worked with in the past, is there any moments that come to mind for you that this really clicked for a client and you noticed maybe it was like a physiological or energetic shift with them or something kind of they had like an aha moment or an insight that then turned into an action? Would love to hear your thoughts on, yeah, just the general question of why the heck does this matter?

SPEAKER_06:
You're really great at just lofting me the easy questions. Why does this, why does this matter? All softballs with this. No, it is. Well, David, like the entire time you're thinking the question, why does this matter? What I was thinking is for whoever's listening, why does it matter to them? Yeah. And it's going to be different for every single individual. So why does it matter? Like, are you frustrated? And frustration is, is a powerful experience. I mean, that is, You know what's wanted and needed and you're not getting it. There's something blocking you. You feel like there's something out of control or that you just can't break through. It's a powerful experience. You're not frustrated about something that you know that you have no interest in. You know that there's not something bigger or better or greater or something that is that just feels in the way. And so sometimes that's it. And sometimes you're like, I'm not frustrated about anything. I'm life is cruising. We're good. Usually then what happens is then it's a matter of time. And so I was talking to a guy earlier today who's in the middle of a huge fundraiser, I think series C or somewhere in that range. And he's just saying, I have a severe lack of time. And he starts telling me all of the things that are getting in the way of his time and he is in charge. And so there is a lot of responsibility culturally in the company that's happening. There's a lot of responsibility with the roles in the company and leadership in the company. And then there's this other big elephant in the room constantly of what's our runway? What's our burn rate? Where are we headed? What's the board thinking? What are our partners? And then it becomes, okay, like lots of things are moving and happening and good and we're not necessarily living in frustration beneath what we're capable of anymore. And now we have to actually manage what is really going on here. What have we created? So it's going to vary. There's a spectrum. And if you're listening to this, there's a wide spectrum of why this conversation is going to matter to you. what I would, what I would question, I wish we were, this was a two way conversation with our, with whoever's listening is I just ask and then listen. And inevitably what's going to come up in that listening is where people are living beneath what they know they're capable of. If anybody is, especially of any life experience at this point, what I've found more recently and I promise I'll keep it short and then tell some stories if you want David to answer your actual question. Yeah. What I've been noticing in particular in the last couple of years specifically after COVID and the whole thing is that a lot of people have felt very disconnected. They felt completely either isolated or alone, whether they're alone physically or if they're just feeling a sense of aloneness. And that spans from people who are just trying to figure out what their next move is all the way through people who are well-established and just managing the day-to-day. And so what I've found in this conversation is when we go back to setting goals is like setting goals, they're just kind of benign goals. And when I say benign, they're not actually moving somebody with any kind of an emotion. And so what that typically indicates is that there is a ton of despair. there's a ton of unprocessed disappointment, despair, hopelessness. And so when we start setting goals out of those places, you can imagine what kind of goals that we're setting. We're setting goals to avoid pain. We're setting goals to avoid failure. We're setting goals that are fine, but not exhilarating because we've, we've done the exhilarating thing. We've done the passionate, powerful, goal setting thing. And we never actually, to Amanda's point, looked under the hood to figure out what was going to get our way of achieving those things. And then when they either happen and don't deliver or they don't happen at all, we're left with all kinds of unprocessed experiences, we'll call them, where We are set up the next time when we go to set goals, we're set up the next time to lower the vision. And anytime we're lowering the vision, we're just giving ourselves a recipe for all kinds of what we'll judge in this conversation typically as negative.

SPEAKER_03:
or even to not set a goal in the first place. For me, when I think about the disappointment, I resonate a lot with what you shared and looking at a season of my life and being so resistant to the goal-setting conversation anyway. And it's just, I'm just going to keep going and everyone is fed and clothed and the world is not falling apart in my house. And we're good. Like, you know, I'm not in the hospital. Like there's like maintenance. I guess that that's lower. That's right. And I guess that that's a lowering of the vision. But there's even why would I want to set a vision in the first place? And I think about. in corporate workspaces too, where then there's a resistance to the goal setting in general. And you're right, there's a maintenance or a coasting because I haven't, yeah, gone underneath and seen what actually is going on there and dealt with the disappointment and the fear and had those conversations.

SPEAKER_06:
What's really exciting, and this is probably one of my most favorite parts of this job, is when we start to explain that we have somebody on a call, we're connecting about it, we are doing a little bit of the soul line. We're not coaching around that yet, but we're just data gathering. It becomes really, really exciting when we go, what would happen if we don't necessarily need to do it, but even just as you're listening, what would happen if you had properly processed all of the pain, the disappointment, the frustration, and allowed yourself to dream again. And what I've been noticing is that dreams are really, really hard to come by. Like big dreams are really, really hard to come by lately. And this is something I've noticed in the last couple of years. We used to get on a call. I used to get on a call and somebody go, I have all these huge dreams, all of these big ideas. And then we'd actually just go, all right, well, let's get into it. And we'd go for it. Lately, what I've been noticing in the last probably two years especially, is that people are coming in a little more burned out. They'll say, you know, I don't even know what I want anymore, or I don't even know what the goal is, or I have these ideas but they feel so big and so beyond me that I don't know what the next step is. That's probably a whole other conversation, but that's what I've been noticing lately. So what becomes really exciting and evident, not just to me, but to them, when we get on a call and we start talking about some of these, what I'll call like the deeper coaching or the soul line, if we're going to use that language, is the natural result is bigger dreaming again. And then we get to actually set goals around some of those things that are exciting again and deal with all of the things that come up on the process and the journey and people begin to dream again and they begin to move again. And there's almost like this, the paralyzed nature of where people have been in their companies or the static nature of their teams or moving in the wrong direction a lot of times. begins to reverse and begins to soften and we get to create again, which is probably what got them to successful in the first place in any arena of their lives. And so we get to re-explore and re-attune to what is going to pull people out of that experience and into David, to your point, what experience do they want to have? Last thing I'm going to add to this, cause I'm talking like crazy. I've had a lot of caffeine today. Can you tell? By the way, just saying. But the other thing is not just what experience do they want to have, but then it gets really exciting. What kind of an experience do you want to create for others? And what kind of experience do you want them to have? And and from that point, it becomes really exciting because people cannot give an experience authentically. They cannot create an experience for others that they do not carry themselves. And so when we start to to unfold some of the soul line stuff, and get into how we can create that experience for them, then the natural outflow is they get to create that same experience or even greater for others. And it begins to be really pervasive in their organization and their family and their lives and their friendships all over the place.

SPEAKER_05:
Yeah so i wanna i wanna summarize a little bit of what was said there and highlight a couple of things chris asked earlier like why does this matter to you. And so i want to ask that in a couple different ways like he alluded to this and the man that is well is notice in your life where you're frustrated where is it you. You honestly want something more and can you be okay wanting that more without having it right now? It's kind of that idea of getting back into dreaming again. And Chris, I don't know if you remember this, but a year or two ago, I think it was like two years ago. And I was going through a challenging season of my life as a coach. You know, we even have challenging moments in life, don't we? And so I was going through a challenge. No.

SPEAKER_03:
No, we're great, right? Just you. Just you, David. Just you.

SPEAKER_05:
Just me. So I'm going through this challenging season of life and I was really having a hard time dreaming. And Chris just said, hey, can we do something really quick? Can we do this exercise? And I'm always up for Chris's exercises. And he said, I'm just going to set a timer for two minutes. And can you just dream? Can you just dream for two minutes? No filters. Wave a magic wand. You have everything you want. And I was kind of like, okay, yeah, I can do that. And so I was able to totally compartmentalize what was going on in my world and then just dive into that. And it was really powerful. And I actually had a very similar call with a different coach I was working with, and he had me do something similar. It was a bit longer. So there was a really beautiful thing, like two minutes, vision, go, right? And it's like anything you want, a million dollars, another, you know, a ski trip or, you know, relationship, doesn't matter, just whatever you want, you can have it. And then what was really cool is this other call that I had with this other coach, he actually like, he said, take me through a day in the life of your life exactly as you want it. From like, what clothes do you put on? What kind of vehicle do you get in? What kind of house do you have? What kind of impact do you have? Are you being philanthropic? Are you volunteering? Are you giving money away? Are you making money? You know, what kind of food do you eat? Where do you go to the restaurants? And I actually wrote that thing down. And one of the biggest things I had written down on that actually has come massively to fruition. And I remember when I wrote it down thinking, I've been trying to achieve this thing for like eight years. And again, I don't know how much this played into it. But then within 12 months, I actually started to get a lot of traction in that realm of my world. So as you're listening to this, I really encourage you to actually pause And ask yourself, why does this conversation matter to you so far? What frustrations come up? What things, if you did the two minute exercise, and you can do that with one of us or one of our coaches, if you really want to do that. And then really sit with that and get some stuff on paper and let yourself just dream again. And then you can literally go back to your life and pretend that two minutes never happened. But at least you'll have that moment. And I remember when I did that with Chris, my energy shifted dramatically. And it was funny because it kind of went way up. It was like, oh, wow, like I want all this stuff. This is exciting again. And then it did drop because it was like, oh, but I'm going through this season of life. And so where there's this toggle and that's why soul line matters so much.

SPEAKER_06:
Right, Chris? A hundred percent. So I was going to say, if you stop the recording and you answer that question and then you're going to hit play again, but you're not actually going to hit play again because you're going to be so angry and so frustrated. So if you're, and that's not, you might not because this is what happens is so we go into, we do that thing and then. where the soul line conversation comes into play and where the real coaching is I think that sets us apart from from maybe other coaching organizations in general and the way that we're trained is all of the conversation that comes up when it's two minutes and one second because that's when your brain is going to start to defend why that can't happen. it's going to start to defend. I guess if we're going to synthesize it, we'd be like, yeah, but, and yeah, but, and then fill in the blank. And all of that filling in the blank is really where we do our best work. And especially in the soul line conversation. And that's what begins to lift us out of that state uh because it is a state it's not a trait it's not you're not a uh a permanently frustrated person that's a temporary state and then we can begin to help people lift out of that experience and create some really new experiences by the way this happens again and again and again i've had massive success in these conversations just me personally in my own businesses and things like that and i'm back and now we get to dream again and every time we do this the same conversation so it really is a hygiene

SPEAKER_05:
conversation meaning like you don't just it's not a set it forget it it's not static you don't learn it and never forget it it is a constant practice and we oftentimes use a lot of gym metaphors in terms of staying in shape and that's why at our firm every coach always has a coach at least a coach within the firm and a lot of us hire coaches outside as well And sometimes the reason I don't want to hire a coach, Chris, to be honest and telling myself at times, I don't want to answer that question. Right. I don't want to answer the question at two minutes and one second. I don't want to sometimes like sometimes getting coach is like the most unflattering thing in the world because it's a it's like it's actually exposing these things where we get in our own way. And oh, there's a quote that was coming to me. Oh, I saw this quote on a website the other day and it said, humiliation is your salvation. Humiliation is your salvation. And it was like, wow. So because a lot of times stepping into the coaching space or even the therapy space is the willingness to expose myself or humiliate myself to another person. Again, I use the term humiliation. It's like to actually say, here's what's going in my head. and to tell myself for the fears that are getting in my way at two minutes and one second. So I say the vision for two minutes and then one second later, it's like fear's there. And this is a soul line conversation at that point because it's just noticing and being okay that fear comes up. Because sometimes it's like automatically a fear comes up and it's like, oh, here we go again. And it's like all your childhood fears and all your teenage fears and all your twenties fears and thirties fears, whatever. It's like I start to discount myself and go, I'm the guy who's afraid and can't do it. And that's the moment where coaching and therapy and other sorts of modalities are really affected because it's a chance for me to show up and say, I've left fear, get in my way, or I've let X get in my way. And I noticed that. And then I want to shame out and give up. And I don't want to do that anymore because I feel like there's an undercurrent within me that's craving a deeper experience of life. that I want to step into.

SPEAKER_04:
I had the unique opportunity to have world-class executive coaches invest in my development both professionally and personally. It's a privilege to be part of a tribe of coaches fiercely committed to exploring what we are capable of together. If you're looking to become a coach or to set up your coaching practice to reach the next level, I highly recommend the certification from the Metta Performance Institute for Coaching. To fill out a free assessment of your abilities as a coach and to connect with someone to find out if the Metta Performance Institute is for you, check out www.mp.institute.

SPEAKER_06:
Gerber, I'll say that's very personal for you. And I really appreciate you sharing that. That's probably going to connect really strongly with somebody listening to this right now. And then there's the other person who goes, yeah, not for me. And you and I are built so similarly in a lot of ways. And then this is one where we definitely diverge because I go like, yeah, that's not me. I don't connect well with that. There's a different driver. behind it for me and there's going to be different droppers behind it for every single individual person and I'm uh maybe this isn't the right platform to me to air all of my how I get in my own way and all of those things happy to do that another time but there is something to when you're listening to this you go like that connects and for me that really doesn't connect And for you, it's much more along the lines of going, okay, what is your version of that? What is your version of how you get in your own way subconsciously that we can begin to identify and explore what is possible for you? And I'd love to hear stories too. And I know Amanda's, I've been, I've been Mike hogging, but I really would love to hear your response to that as well, Amanda, and then get into some stories as well.

SPEAKER_03:
Yeah, I think that the knowing your own bent and knowing your own, which way maybe you lean, right? And there might be different things within the soul line conversation. And also probably you're bent more towards the goal line or more towards the soul line conversation. So I find with clients, I'll have a lot of really high-performing people and they're really great at setting goals and developing strategy. And so part of what the coaching space is, is a slowing down. I've even had clients say, I'm not setting any goals. because they have been so driven by them so much, their life, it's just goal after goal after goal, the next right thing, the next right thing, the next right thing. And so to really slow that down and say, for the next three months, we're not even setting a goal to just sit in that unpacking of what is it that I really want and what is going into that conversation.

SPEAKER_06:
Well, just to illustrate something, and I don't want to forget it, I've never thought of this before, so in real time, here we are, is thinking in the same way that we say goal and soul, they rhyme, and so we use them, the soul line, we unpack a little bit, we don't do that as much with the goal line. I think with the goal line, it feels, and I even said this, I'll disagree with myself, or maybe add to it, is that it feels very obvious. What's coming up for me as I'm thinking through some of the stories that I have is that really what we're talking about is results. And sometimes the results are clear and derivative of our work and the conversation and they're set up and they're visible. More times what I've really been leaning into lately, more times than not though, the results come as a result of the soul line conversation and we never could have been. So, and I have example after example, we'll give a few, but like, Well, I'll give you a couple of examples and I'll put them in a specific order that I think is important for what I've noticed. The first one is the goal. What were we actually up to or wanting to accomplish? The next is the soul line. What was the conversation that either illuminated that as a goal or that the goal illuminated what was underneath. So it can go both ways. So we set a goal and why are we not hitting it? How does that occur to us? It feels impossible. And that reveals what's going on underneath. Separately is we reveal something that's going on underneath and we say, well, if that were out of the way, then what would be possible? And then the goal is derivative of the soul line conversation. So it can really go both ways. So goal, soul, the next is the revelation. Like what is revealed in that conversation? This is where the coaching work shines. I love this. Every time we get to reveal something that has always been there, that's new for somebody. And so when they have that, I guess, revelation in the conversation, then that leads inevitably to action. So what is the action that is going to be taken as a result of that revelation? Oftentimes we'll say something like insights lead to actions. And so when we, when we take action and then the next is the result, there's, there is a, a natural result. Sometimes that result is so far off of what the original goal was, uh, so much better a lot of times because we're, we're coming from a different place, but just in terms of, of understanding and I've, I wanted to bring some stories of where we had the goal line conversation, the soul line conversation. It, it did reveal some things it brought. clear derivative action, and then there was a result. And so in that order, I think is really exciting to go through is, is how do we talk through what the conversations were and what they led to as a result. So when we're talking about goal line, we're oftentimes talking about results. Would either of you add to that or, or cause this is real time processing for me.

SPEAKER_05:
So that's actually what I was wondering, Chris is, is like, if you can bring to mind a specific conversation you've had maybe in the last three months, that's fresh around this. I think it can start with goal line or soul line and i think we may talk about both sides of our mouth at times but sometimes it is. How much money do you want to make this year? Sometimes it is how much money do you want to give away? Sometimes it is. Yeah. What sales number, you know, maybe it's a relationship goal or something like that. So at first seemed like it's, you know, I want to run a marathon. So it's like something that like is a tangible goal line thing. And then I actually had this conversation the other day, again, for like the a hundredth time of a coach that I was working with led me right to the water, right? Like the whole thing, what is it you want, dah, dah, dah, dah, pay me that picture, dah, dah, dah, dah. And then she goes okay and then she says okay so then what would that experience be like. I was like you know i can i kept breaking it down and at the end of the day what was really beautiful this time around was. I was like oh i get to be me right if i was having all these things if i was you know making the money i want to make working with the clientele that i want to work with in the spaces that i want to be in traveling the way that i want to i was like. I would just be free to be me and i wasn't handcuffed you know from like the experience that i wanted that i think that i couldn't have until then and she's like well so that you can start being you now. So I'm wondering, and Amanda, I'll throw it to you here in a second of, if you have an example of walking it through with a client, did you start with GoalLine? Did you start with SoulLine? Is there one you prefer more than the other to start with as you work into it with a client? And then, like, with the steps that Chris kind of talked about, like, what did you see come up with that client? And then, you know, where were they before they worked with you? What happened when you worked with them? And then, and then what happened after that?

SPEAKER_03:
Yeah, I think a lot about my clients in the corporate space. So oftentimes when we're working with corporately, and they're not the CEO of the company where they've set their own goals, well, even if they are a CEO, oftentimes the board has set the goals. So there are like goals that You inherit so people can come across I think like this empowered Lee of you know These are being put on to me and so that's a whole conversation then of how you're you're relating to that so but oftentimes people are coming in with very clear goals and outcomes that they are to use the coach. We both are aligned. This is what I am here to partner with you to help you achieve. But oftentimes there's a lot that comes up again in the soul line conversation. And so I've had so many clients at the beginning sit and actually write out what their leadership vision is. So who they want to, how they want to lead, who they want to be, and that includes the results. And that also includes a lot of the, like, who they want to show up at. And they'll write a draft of that and then we'll go back and I usually work with them to turn up the dial on the empowerment and because sometimes it's a little weak, maybe a little pleasing. So we put some confidence into that and I had one client She wrote such a powerful leadership vision and then what she did to actually turn that into action and results, because it's one thing to have it and I'll have clients record it on a voice memo and listen to it and read it out loud or get feedback on it, but she actually turned it into a rubric. So she took it and pursed it out into different things and then she would set a commitment for herself bi-weekly to go and look at this spreadsheet and ask herself questions around each of those and evaluate it and then give herself feedback as to then how she can continue to put more weight on the bar and turn up the dial on those very specific kind of soul line and way of being things that actually were then going to translate into helping her get the results that she wanted. Or I think like a lot of times people come with outcomes like, I want to be more confident. Or it's like, but why? Right? So if you were more confident what would be the results that would be being created. And so the result actually becomes the game that you're wanting to win that's going to require whatever shift in mindset it's going to take. And so again, I think back to the synergy of how that works. But I think it's like depending on what you're coming with. So sometimes you might be coming with the soul line, and let's actually create a game that's going to require that type of transformation or people are coming in with the results and let's look at who you're going to need to become in order to create those and actually create even some sort of plan in order to create that for yourself.

SPEAKER_05:
And I think what was so important there, Amanda, I think that I really want listeners to hear is I think so much of this has to do with understanding how we're relating to goals that we set for ourselves goals maybe that our company has for us maybe it's our team we coach a lot of athletes so that sometimes the team or the organization has goals for the team and we go back to that question of what experience do you want to have For me as we're all talking i'm it becomes even more more important i think for a person to pause. And just ask themselves how am i seeing this right now. Right am i seeing the goals i have as exciting and electric and thrilling or whatever it is that you want to have like fulfilling again if you're listening to this. The experience you wanna have of life is your own. A lot of times there's commonality we find with our clients. But I think to really pause there for a second because I think I find this is where a lot of clients disconnect from themselves and disconnect from their experience of life because it's like they're not deeply connected to their goals and they're not deeply connected to their experience every moment between now and the coming future. And then they rob themselves of an experience of life they could be having right now. And I think that's the greatest tragedy I see. But tragedy is that people don't, and then they don't know that they have power over that. They think that this is just, you know, the company threw these goals on me, the team threw these goals on me, or I set these goals in January and I've already, you know, not on track. And then they rob themselves of an experience of like either going again or relating to that in a different way. And I think, personally, that's why I have coaches in my life, coaches and therapists, is because I notice there's a tendency for me to do that to where I can not be on track and then start to get down on myself. And what I find really helpful is if I show up on a weekly basis or biweekly basis and give a count and then look at things and process through that and shift my experience, then I can really open up a lot of potential going forward.

SPEAKER_03:
I resonate with what you were talking about. I think for me, Chris, to go back to, you know, it's January health type things. I've been avoiding setting goals or vision or like a vision for my health a lot. And it's not that I don't know what to do. Like I listened to Andrew Huberman. I like, you know, like I know all the protocols.

SPEAKER_06:
Shout out Andrew if you're listening to this.

SPEAKER_03:
That's right. That's right. I've had both of you guys. It was like, well, why don't you do this? Why don't you do this? Why are you know, I'm like, oh, and I look at all the other people who are doing all these things is like, I should be. I should be doing that. I should be doing that. I should be doing that. It's like, why? Why am I not? And that for me is the valuable space, because you're right. Then I keep all of these sheds on myself. But I have just started listening while I'm almost almost done with Dr. Peter Atiyah's Outlive. And there's been other seasons where I had a very clear why around why I wanted to care about my health, whether it was because in my younger years wanting to look a certain way or wanting to have babies or, you know, there was a reason why and I just haven't had that. And so the conversation isn't around developing a strategy or what I need to be doing or even setting a goal. It's why does this matter? It's like, oh, I want to be 90 and having a good time. Like that is so I'm like, oh my gosh, I found it. That's really motivating to me to picture myself with my grandkids and on the floor. And it's like, OK, that's and so maybe that's like a middle age vision of like, OK, we've gotten there. But it connects and it matters to me. And I like all of a sudden my behaviors are starting to change even in just, you know, this time is like, okay, now I am ready to actually bring that into the coaching space of a clear goal and what that is going to look like for myself. I can begin to move forward and we're all very excited about that. But it was the soul line conversation. I didn't need the goal line now. Now it makes sense.

SPEAKER_05:
Yeah, one and a man I'm thinking too is is to think about how you experience this moment now when you know you're honoring yourself at 90. It's you can go into the future and imagine yourself playing with your grandkids. But but for me, it's like I know that if in the next 60 minutes I go do the stair machine or the Pilates classes that I love, if I go do that. And then what's fun is like even in the middle of one of those workouts and it's like burning in that moment. And I play with this a lot because those workouts are uncomfortable or they're painful or whatever you want to call it. Like I feel the burn. And in the middle of the burn, I will say to myself, what experience do you want to have of life right now? It's funny how it allows me to actually soften into the rigor of the workout. And I actually enjoy the workout and the pain level actually drops like 1% in that moment and I love it. But what's best about it is like the moment right when you finish a great or like a tough workout, is like that experience is worth it. And so just knowing what that experience is.

SPEAKER_00:
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SPEAKER_05:
Chris, I want to hear a few examples for you, and then we'll wind down after that.

SPEAKER_06:
Yeah, well, I'll give a few just stories, I think, and I think those are probably going to be good illustrations, but I want to give them like a few because I think there's, they are different and they emerged differently. And before I even give the story, I think, uh, one of the things I think is, is really exciting about this is, and I've not said this in a public setting so far, but when we talk to clients or potential clients, people who are not our clients yet, and inevitably somebody will hear this podcast or read the book or be referred to, to us by another client or a friend or something. I'll get on the call and I'll say, why are we here? What's going on for you? What's worth taking some time out for a call with an executive coach uh, just in general. And, and a lot of times they don't know, they go like, well, I think I have, I think I have an idea. They have this, this sense of a direction or something that they want. They don't actually know, which is probably more often than not. That's the case. It's, it's not uncommon, but it is more rare to have somebody go, this is exactly what I want. And this is how I want to get there. And so it's just really, really rare. It does happen every once in a while, or we're stepping into, usually when that's the case, we're stepping into some degree of momentum that's been created through either through a company or through a past experience or a workshop or something. But more often than not, I think it's important to actually say, somebody will go, I don't know. Yeah. All right. Great. Well, let's start there. And this is really where this story really starts. As I was talking to a guy not too long ago, he's a pro athlete. And I said, Hey, he was referred by another person. I said, so what's up? And that was really how we started. And he goes, you know, I don't even know. I go, okay, well, you know, you're taking the time. Like, what do you hope you're going to find and what's going on for you? And what he began to unpack was that he's been in the league for nearly a decade. And he just goes, And I just don't care anymore. Like I just, it's not clicking. I've been doing the same job. And if you think this is just pro athletes, my goodness, it is. If you're, if you're not a pro athlete and listening to this and you've been in your field for that long, I promise you this is going on for you at some level. Maybe not. Maybe if you're a, I was going to say some version of like an altruistic thing. And then I realized that's us and I get there. So not there. So we started the conversation. We said, okay, so why are we here? And he just goes, I don't even know. I just, I go, there's something behind that. And I go, well, what do you think are the thoughts that are leading to that energy drop? What we figured out is that he just has no more energy for the game. They're wrapping up the season or whatever. And he says, I just sound like have a ton of energy for the game. They're not done yet. And what happened was I said, well, what are the thoughts? And he's like, what do you mean? What are the thoughts? I think that I don't like this. And I was like, yeah, but why do you think that? Where do you remember learning that you didn't like this. What happened? And if we really slow down and reverse, so this is what happened. He said, you know, I just don't think that anybody cares. I don't think they believe in us. And I said, well, who are they? And he's like, everybody. And so he was living in this. It doesn't matter anyway. It doesn't matter. I don't care. They don't care. And so I was like, well, give me some names. And he did. He goes, these people don't care. And there were people that were on the team, people who were leading the team, some of the staff. And I go, cool. So how do you behave? How do you react? What's it like? What happens to your energy when you believe the thought that they don't care anyway? They don't believe in you. And that was the big one. They don't believe in us. And he's like, well, I, you know, how do you respond? How do you react? How would, if you were the, uh, a movie character, we only know what you're thinking and feeling by what you're saying and doing. Uh, I'll say that slower. We only know what you're thinking and feeling by what you're saying and doing. How do we know what you're thinking and feeling? And he goes, oh, you know, I like, I sleep in. I phone it in for practice. I don't work as hard. Pretty like annoying to my girlfriend or to my significant other.

SPEAKER_05:
Grumpy. Grumpy or frustrated or yeah.

SPEAKER_06:
Yeah, yeah, yeah. So we looked at all this and I was like, yeah, no wonder. Back to your point, Gerbert. So this is the experience of life he was having day in, day out. And I said, all right, cool. So let's just, let's just do a thought experiment. What if you knew that everyone believed in you? The people at the top, they don't know how to express it, but they just, they believe in you. Who are some people that believe in you? So I have, you know, family believes in me, you know, brother and sister believe in me, spouse believes in me or significant other. And I go, Hey, what about me? Can I, can I count? Like I want to get on that train. So we talked through what's it like to feel believed in, how do we know? And so one of the things I love about coaching pro athletes is like, you can watch the game the next day and find it. Oh my goodness. And Gerber, you know who I'm talking about. And you watched what happened over that weekend, that week that that specifically took place. But really what happened was he started to smile and he goes, you know what? It was a day off. They were in another city. And he's like, you know, I'd probably go out and I'd smile. I'd get a coffee and I'd ask the barista how they're doing. And I'd just show up differently. I'd probably be less of a pain in the butt to my girlfriend or wife, girlfriend, forgive me. It was our first call ever.

SPEAKER_01:
Yeah.

SPEAKER_06:
And so I go, okay, cool. So what happens if you step out onto the field of the court and believe that this is true? Yeah. And you go, ah, I'd probably show up a lot differently. And he was smiling, he was giddy, he had energy. And I go, hey, pause, pause, pause. What's going on for you right now? How are you feeling? He's like, I want to go out and get a coffee and go out and see if any of the other guys on the team want to go with me. I was like, all right. What has actually changed in your circumstances? Nothing has changed in the circumstances. We still don't know what's going on. What has changed is the soul line, what we've discovered. So then, just to keep in step here, the revelation was external circumstances were dictating his internal world. What we shifted, I said, does that have to be true for you? No. So his internal perspective was something that he chose as resourceful. Now we don't know if it's true or not. Maybe they don't believe in him. But it was really powerful and resourceful for him in a way that they went out and and he in particular Crushed the next two now games and it was a total massive game changer for him because he's having fun again You can tell he's having fun again He's laughing the experience that he's having is completely different now. He didn't know what his his goal was He didn't even know he didn't know what was going on. He just stepped in and goes I have absolutely no idea I just something's off And if that's somewhere where if somebody is listening to this and they go, like, I would, I'm going to wait to talk to an executive coach until I know exactly what's going on. Good luck, my friend, get on the call. Somebody like, yeah, yeah, it really is like this is this is one of the privileges that we get to sit in this seat is start to understand what's actually happening for people and offer perspective that moves them into the results that they wanted. Now he's talking about like this were possible. all the time, what would be possible? What goals would you set? Now, what goals is he going to set at the beginning of that call versus what goals is he going to set after having that call, going out, performing at a level that he has not been performing at, and then coming back now, the next call we have, I'm going to say, now we can talk about some goals. Now, what do you want? And so that's one.

SPEAKER_05:
But I had a similar conversation with an athlete I work with, too, and it was very similar, you know, the thing once you get into that stuff. And then he texted me after the game and he said, that's the most fun I've ever had playing hockey in my, you know, 25 years or whatever it was. And that's imagine if you're a corporate exec and you're listening to this, imagine if it was like, man, that was the most fun day I've ever had working, not just another day at the office, not just another zoom call, but like, what if that could actually be fun? What if that could be enjoyable? Amanda, quick, and then back to Chris.

SPEAKER_03:
And I think just, yeah, just to highlight, it wasn't about changing the external circumstances and changing the external world.

SPEAKER_06:
Didn't begin there.

SPEAKER_03:
That's right. There's so much agency and resource. And so I think that sometimes when we're having those feelings of either frustration or disillusionment or apathy, at least for me, it's really easy to judge myself. for having that and it's like I just need to work harder, discipline myself more. And there's like, oh no, that's revealing something. It's something to pay attention to and to have a conversation with somebody else and I can actually shift what is going on inside my head that's then going to shift the behavior and create such complete and different results. So that's just remembering I have way more power oftentimes than what I think I do. And that is the power of the soul and conversation.

SPEAKER_05:
Yeah. And then and then how I love Chris. I love how you said how it impacted. Is relating with others to write so then now he's. He's essentially giving away to the world and other people what he wants to experience and so it becomes this. Almost seen synergistic experience of like i want to experience more joy fulfillment etc in my life. So, so bring that to people and give that away and then like you get to receive it back. So there's so many layers there.

SPEAKER_06:
Yeah. Well, and this is why we have coaches. I mean, it's like nobody doesn't understand that they go to the gym and they lift the barbell. It's like that's how you get stronger and it doesn't. happen alone a lot of times. And so in rare cases, but it really is. And even if I am, even if I am going in and lifting on my own, uh, my trainer specifically is it, he has a perspective that I don't have that he can show me where I'm going to hurt myself. He can show me where I'm going to, where my posture is off, where my form is wrong and giving me these little tips that have been Incredibly helpful. By the way, I'm new to this whole world. And so I've learned so much in the last two years about lifting and body stuff, which has been a lot of fun. I never knew that before. And it's like, why do I still have a trainer? I've had a trainer for two years. Like, why still have one? Now you know what to do. And which I've heard that, like, frankly, from people a few times, you already know what to do. You've had this trainer, learn what to do and then go do it. Yeah. Mirrors are nice. They do not give me the perspective and the skill to help me actually do what I'm actually trying to accomplish doing. So last story that I'll have, and Rory's been a client for a long time, but our first conversation ever, our first, he hired me for a lot of money to him, his company's small business owner. And he goes, I just, I need to break through. I've been in the same routine for quite a while. And it was not just the routine, but it was the, quite frankly, I dug into it and it's like margins, margins were thin, super thin profit margins. I go, well, what's the problem with that? We sussed out a couple of the differences there. He goes, Mike, so we put a goal together that not at all around his soul and stuff. First call, we put a goal together to decrease expenses, increase revenue, and try to capture some margins so that they were actually in a more sustainable place. So that was our goal that we put together. Now, neither one of us had any idea how to accomplish that yet. I mean, it was a first call, 45 minutes. But then what happened is all of a sudden, and forgive me if I get the specific details wrong here, but I said, well, what else is on the docket this week? And it was the end of the call. I mean, literally the dead end of the call. And I go, so what else you got going on? He's like, ah, we're doing this project. And I was like, oh, well, I got some extra time. First call, can I ask a question about it? I was like, how are you feeling about it? Cause you feel like your response was pretty, he's like, well, you know, I just, I feel like it's a lot of money that we're spending and I don't exactly know. And every time I ask a question, it feels like the team just rolls their eyes at me and I get frustrated. And so I'm like, okay. So we started to dig into all of his occurrences around how the team was seeing him, how his, and he's the leader of the company, but he doesn't know the day to day of project. And so he felt like either belittled or demeaned or whatever it was that was going into those those meetings, he just felt like he was getting in the way. And I said, all right, so how do you respond when you feel like you're getting in the way? And he pulls back, he lets people drive. And I said, all right, so let's put an action together that violates the belief that you're in the way, that frankly violates the thought and the belief that you're wrong, that you don't have anything to offer, that the team, we don't care if they think that you're a problem or whatever. And just what would you do? He's like, well, I would just ask. I would just ask because I really want to understand. I'm not trying to get in their way. I'm not trying to like be a problem, but I do want to understand where this money is going. So he sent an email while we were on the call. If you remember Rory, I said, what would that email look like? He's like, I would just ask, hey, can I get a line item to understand each one of these lines in this budget? He sent that email. We get on the call the next week, like seven days later, and we get into the call and we get into the goals and we get into the things. Hey, whatever happened with that email? Oh, oh yeah. They responded and they, they responded saying, Hey, yeah, totally. No problem. We can knock off. And they knocked off, I think it was $45,000 from this project that they were doing. And I was like, Rory. You just paid for the coaching man. Like what the heck? He's like, Oh, you know, I never even noticed that. And that was our first ever call. From then on, I've had this goal of whatever we're charging for coaching. I want to see if we can get it in the first call, get paid back in the first call. I've done that three or four times now. It's been really exciting. But for him, it was understanding that he was, he was experiencing, he had this big goal and then we're like, well, what's going to get in the way of that. And he started experiencing, oh, I feel like I'm in the way. I feel like I don't know what I'm talking about that other people are thinking that I'm for who cares, just whatever they're thinking. It was just that they're thinking his thinking about what they were thinking was getting in his way of acting in the best interest of him in the company. Yeah, I love the most concise way to say that. And when we start to really poke around in some of those places and understand We learn a ton about ourselves. We learn a ton about what's possible and whole things open up. And I was like, man, Rory, my rates are going up. I was like, what the heck? And so anyway, I love you, Rory, if you're listening to this.

SPEAKER_05:
So, well, and I love that because it, it, you, you played on so many of the things that are both goal line and soul line and how they really weave together to create results.

SPEAKER_06:
I think what hasn't been said is how much that has affected, and I've watched this, how much that has affected his leadership. That one experience, when we slowed it down the next class, all right, well, now how are we going to conduct ourselves in a very different way? And that company has grown. They've put new product lines out. There's all kinds of really cool stuff that's going on. It has affected his leadership and his courage, frankly, his courage. And he's actually transformed through this and lots of other conversations around this. He's transformed the way that his team sees him because once we got into it going, how did this happen where your team was actually, it was a little bit of a tail wagging the dog situation. And some of that team was inherited and he didn't have any say of that. So there was a lot of stuff like that, that he's, he's really elevated his leadership. So Rory, I know you're listening. I'm proud of you for that. And you'd be able to say that too, but it's completely shifted his entire trajectory of leadership and the company.

SPEAKER_03:
Yeah, and oftentimes it isn't just the the transformation isn't just in our leadership within the professional space, but oftentimes those soul and conversations bleed over into the personal space too. And so courage, yes, as a leader, but I don't. know, like possibly, you know, like either as a partner or as a parent or as a member of the community or wherever it is that we're involved in. And so not just our professional world begins to change, but our life in every area of our life. And the favorite part for me around the Soul Line conversation is it oftentimes just isn't about that particular goal that I'm setting, it leads into all sorts of other areas bringing about transformation, which to me is really powerful.

SPEAKER_05:
I love that. I do love it. Yeah, it becomes pervasive when you notice something that's, what's beautiful is some area of our life exposes something that's holding us back. And then when we address it, then it can affect all areas of our life, similar to what Chris was saying, even just shifting from maybe he was, I don't know if Rory was, but like, the areas of my life where I've lived in, you know, I've been operating out of fear, let's say, right? And then I shift to operating out of love or courage, then what's great is I get to see that open up other things in my life as well.

SPEAKER_06:
I think what's important to say that I care for though, it's, it's really important is I don't think that he would have been able to say, or, and this is, I'm using him as a, as a placeholder for all of us at this point that he would have been able to say, I'm operating out of fear. Yes. It was unavailable to his conscious mind until we get into it. And that's what the power of this work is a lot of times, or these conversations, it doesn't necessarily need to be us, but like, that's really where you get to expose what's happening behind the scenes.

SPEAKER_05:
Funny enough is it takes a lot of courage to even step into The conversation with somebody else on a regular basis and have that conversation because there's probably a moment for him where it's like you see it and you're like a little bit embarrassed for a second you're like i'm afraid to send this email or afraid to make this call or whatever it is and then you step into it and it's. Usually turns out usually turns out better than you expect it to so. But yeah, so, so I love that, that story, Chris and winding it down. I just love to hear in 60 seconds or less from each of you. What do you want the listener to take away from this? Like, what do you want them to go do from this conversation? Amanda, I'll start with you and then Chris, and then I'll, I'll wrap us up. But what do you want people to go do, Amanda?

SPEAKER_03:
Yeah, I think some of just what you just said, like to have the courage to step into the sacredness of that space. I think it's easy to avoid because it can be some of the unflattering conversations. And so for me as a coach, knowing that I'm holding that space for somebody to be honest and to be real and the trust that is needed in those conversations. But the more I think of our full and honest self that we can bring there, it does become a very powerful moment to get curious and begin to shift that again is going to bring about some really cool results and transformation in our life. And so, yeah, I think that just the courage to be able to enter into those spaces and be honest in that way.

SPEAKER_05:
Love it. Chris, how about you? What would you love the listener to go do after listening to this?

SPEAKER_06:
Yeah, I'm just admittedly biased. I say it costs you absolutely nothing to call us. And I really mean that like to get on a call with a coach and come show up and say either you have an idea or you don't, but take the time and actually get into it. And honestly, it costs what an hour of your time to find out and let it be a trajectory shifting conversation. I think whether you choose to work with somebody long-term in that moment or not, it is irrelevant at this point. What I would say is have a conversation so you can actually find out what is going on beneath the surface and never talk to us again. or do either way, like that conversation is going to be illuminating in a way that's going to serve you, your company, your family, and your future in a way that I think is really powerful, whether you choose to engage with us or not. And hopefully you do. But I've had at least two people come back a year later and say that conversation shifted everything for us. One of them chose to hire me and the other one, I still get texts or calls every once in a while about all the amazing things. that happened from that one or two phone calls, whether he chose to hire us or not. And I think that's what I would say is the next step is just get a call with somebody and can pull your best out of you and serve your future. That's what I would say.

SPEAKER_05:
I agree with obviously with Chris and Amanda and all the three of us have all benefited massively from the coaching space, the therapy space, just talking with somebody. And we love what we do because it's transformed our lives. And in addition to that, so there'll be links in the show notes to get in touch with us. So an email you can send, go to our website, novus.global. And then also we have a book called Beyond High Performance. And so if you're maybe not quite to that point where you're ready to get on a call, There's a book that we've written that is called Beyond High Performance, and it talks a lot about different tools that we have and things that we take people through with, so I'd really encourage you to read that book. Listen to other podcasts that we have, as well as if you really want to take a courageous step, even just with yourself, just do the two-minute thing. Set a timer for two minutes and just write out your dreams, and if you want, you can just Throw it away if you want after that, but like feel that two minutes and what it's like before and after that. But take that courageous step to just begin to dream again and see where it takes you. So with that, we will wrap up for today. And so for Chris, for Amanda, for myself, David, thanks for being here and we'll see you on the next episode.

SPEAKER_02:
All right, we have a few more things to let you know about before we go. First, podcast reviews really help us serve more people. So if this podcast is helpful for you, we'd love your help to get it into as many leaders' hands as possible. Please leave us a review, even if it's not five stars. And if you really want to go the extra mile, let us know what you'd like to hear more of or what you think we could do better to serve you and the people you care about. Okay, second, we have more resources for you online and they're all free. We have free assessments, educational videos, articles from sources like Fast Company, written by our coaches and clients, all designed to help you use our tools in your everyday life and leadership. To dive into the free treasure trove of goodies we have for you, go to novus.global and then click on resources. Some of you have been listening for a while and you haven't yet taken that next step to hire a coach. This is your time. I can't tell you how often I've heard from clients around the world that they wish they would have talked to us sooner. If you have a sense that you're capable of more, we would be thrilled to explore what coaching could do for you and those you influence. Simply email us at begin at novus.global or click the link in the show notes. You also might be listening to this thinking, maybe you want to be a coach, or maybe you already are, and you have a vision to build a six or seven figure practice coaching people you love in a way that brings life to you and your clients. Well, that's why we created the Metta Performance Institute for Coaching. It is an in-depth coaching apprenticeship designed to help you create the coaching practice of your dreams. The first step in exploring that is simple. Just go to www.mp.institute. There we have free assessments to help you see what kind of training you need to create the coaching practice the way our coaches do at Nova Global. Finally, this show was produced by Rainbow Creative with Matthew Jones as Executive Producer, Steven Selnick as Producer, and Rob Johnson as Audio Editor and Engineer. We love working with this team. Find out more about how to create a podcast for you and your business at RainbowCreative.co. Thank you so much for listening. We love making these for you. And remember, dare to go beyond high performance.